William the Conqueror Quotes
No bishop or archdeacon shall any longer hold, in the hundred court, pleas pertaining to the episcopal laws, nor shall they bring before the judgment of secular men any case which pertains to the rule of souls; …. I forbid and by my authority interdict, that any sheriff, or provost, or minister of the king, or any layman concern himself in the matter of laws which pertain to the bishop.
William the Conqueror. This is one of the earliest government action separating some church functions from state functions.
William I, c. 1028-1087, Norman King of England, Ordinance Separating the Spiritual and Temporal Courts
Sourced by: Eigen's Political and Historical Quotations
A priest, friar or monk with this commission could and did, remove from the custody and control of the local judges, bailiffs and law enforcement officers clerics who had run afoul of the law. At the time the word “clerk” meant any churchman. The principle at the time was that the state could not judge or dispense justice or punishment to members of the church. Only the church could try and convict clerics and they did that persiant to cannon (religious) law. In theory, the bearer of this commission would take custody of an accused criminal who was a churchman, and bring him to the Bishop who would handle the case under Ecclesiastical Law. Often that meant, doing nothing or minor penitence for a crime that could even bring the death penalty under civil law. Historically there has been a major struggle in the West between the churches and civil governments that still goes on to this day in countries like Ireland. In America, the early 21st century saw the Roman Catholic bishops covering up crimes of sexual predation on the part of Priests. Many people were also outraged that the bishops did not report the Priests to the police, but this was unfortunately a throwback to this historical notion that the Church only can deal with the discipline and legal matters involving church personnel or property. Historically, reporting matters like this to civil authorities for handling is only about 200 years old, while the system illustrated by this quotation had been in place for about 1200 years before.
This was before the state had officially sanctioned and accepted the church. Most of the institutions were pagan and the kings had subjects of both religions with Christianity not yet dominant. Yet among Christians, the Church had government temporal power, even before the church was allied with the state.
Carroll was writing to Troy during the time of the question of Catholic emancipation in England. Here he is clearly alluding to the British form of government. Carroll never missed the opportunity to champion religious freedom as manifested in the U.S. Constitution. For an earlier example of his praise for religious freedom, see {596933}.
King Henry VIII had left the Roman Catholic church and taken England and Ireland out also. He replaced the Pope as the head of the English and Irish churches. There was much opposition in Ireland and the priests were the most assertive opponents to the change and were still loyal to the Pope. Queen Elizabeth continued to have problems with the Priests. James I, Elizabeth’s successor, became fed up by the Roman Catholic Priests and therefor issued this Proclamation.
His positions presaged some of those of Protestants in the Reformation. In the great struggle of the time between the Pope and the Emperor, Marsilius was the leading advocate for the emperor’s superiority of authority. The Pope wrote a condemnation of these ideas.
Jefferson’s concern over issues of church state separation and independence was expressed early when he was a young lawyer.
Some politicians then and later were not as religious as the leading clerics would prefer. The quotation shows that priests commonly married at that time even though the church had forbidden it.
This concept is not terribly different from the concept of the theocracy of the Islamic government of Iran in the 21st century. There is a civil government but it serves and is “under the direction of the spiritual power.”
The church was in constant roil with the Bishops, the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor each striving for superiority over the other two, almost like branches of government fighting for power. This was the bishops attempt to “impeach” the Holy Roman Emperor who was never charged or given an opportunity to face or refute the charges. He was not even present at the Council. See {611260} for his reply.
Gregory the Great. “Emoluments” included the income from all lands and other church property, gifts and tithes, and income of any sort. This formula characterized the division of resources for the better part of Christian history. By today’s standard, the proportion for these Bishops (there were those who chose poverty) and his household seems astoundingly high—his income and sustenance was the equal of all the priests in the bishopric. It illustrates the affluence of the bishops who were major forces in their territories. One of the rationales for such an affluent bishop (the assets were not all personal but he had control of them) was that he should be at least the equal of any in the area including kings and nobles for he was to have as much influence as they. It is difficult today to look at modern bishops and realize how their role, power, relative wealth, and influence has changed. Bishops had their own armies, judiciary, accountants, attorneys and were a government unto themselves.
See {610517} for the Papal Bull which “gave” Ireland to England. There has been some dispute over whether this was a forgery to support the authenticity of the Papal Bull which itself was questioned.
Pen name: Jack Nipps
The letter was written at the behest of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The quotation appears to ratify the Pope’s unlimited power, but in actuality carves out an exception whereby the Pope’s authority might be challenged in the future. Specifically, it claims the Pope has not the authority to alter that which “by the word of God, has eternal validity.” Politically, this position put the pope in a box. By arguing against the proposition, the Pope would have to maintain that he should have the right to alter the word of God that had eternal validity which no pope wanted to state. By not challenging the doctrine, there was an opening by which the pope’s omnipotence could be challenged in the future.
While he did not believe that clerics should engage in politics, he did believe that Islamic values and law should be embodied in the nation’s constitution and laws.
This was a fairly radical constraint on what had been a traditional priestly prerogative throughout the ages. However, the penalty for such a sin and infraction was rather modest—a warning for the first offence, followed by reducing the cleric’s income. There were more serious punishments proscribed for repeated offenses, but typical of most reform efforts a newly prohibited activity carries a very light penalty. For example $20 fines for providing alcohol to a minor was the initial penalty in some states. A then current comparison can be made since elsewhere in this council dueling between Christians was also prohibited. But the penalty for even the first offence was excommunication.
It is this proclamation and others like it that caused many of the American Founding Fathers to include the doctrine of separation of church and state. In this case, and many others, the government actually proscribed and controlled the prayers and the liturgy. See {617532} where the government proscribes the proportion of revenues that must be spent on the poor.
William I, usually known as William the Conqueror and sometimes William the Bastard, was the first Norman monarch of England, reigning from 1066 until his death in 1087. He was a descendant of Rollo and was Duke of Normandy from 1035 onward. By 1060, following a long struggle to establish his throne, his hold on Normandy was secure. In 1066, following the death of Edward the Confessor, William invaded England, leading an army of Normans to victory over the Anglo-Saxon forces of Harold Godwinson at the Battle of Hastings, and suppressed subsequent English revolts in what has become known as the Norman Conquest. The rest of his life was marked by struggles to consolidate his hold over England and his continental lands, and by difficulties with his eldest son, Robert Curthose.
