Jonathan Shapiro Quotes

The press were asking about the claim that the United States were sending detainees (“rendition” it is called) in the War on Terrorism to countries where they are tortured in ways that United States law prohibited. This quotation is an excellent illustration of the nuanced language that is sometimes used by politicians with the press. For example this statement was made in the Press Conference about our Human Rights Annual report. In it specific countries were named and accused of torturing prisoners or suspects. The press had learned that detainees had been renditioned to those same countries. Lowenkron went on to explain that U. S. officials had explained to officials of the countries to which detainees had been renditioned that the detainees should not be tortured; therefore they did not BELIEVE that they would be. So the statement was “correct” whether or not they detainees had been tortured. In another nuance, some people wondered what “we” meant—the United States or the State Department. Perhaps the State Department followed this policy and practice but the CIA may not have.

It is surprising that these ideas would come from one of the most autocratic powerful monarch in the world at the time. However there were many very liberal influences on her from Europe. This set of proposals she even sent to Voltaire to get his feedback and criticism. As late as 2006 the American President was reluctant to outlaw torture for terroristsand the Vice President actually argued for its retention as an interrogation technique. Over 300 years earlier the autocrat of Russia argued against it.

He was referring to the police interrogation methods that Turkey had used in the past but was in the process of reforming.

Rejecting criticism of military courts trying and executing terrorists without any appeals process:

This was untrue. The CIA used several forms of torture on high value detainees. The torture was psychological and physical. Even the FBI had agents who observed CIA interrogations and complained to their supervisors. For cover, the George W. Bush administration, got 3 Justice Department Attorneys to write a secret memo defining certain types of torture as “enhanced interrogation”. Water Boarding, for which American soldiers had been court martialed and convicted for torture then became enhanced interrogation, and was used on a few terrorists. Because of the rigged Justice Department memo, the CIA claimed that they did not torture people. Another thing the CIA did was to turn over enemy to the intelligence services of third countries like Egypt, where torture was used commonly with no regard for the Geneva convention or other human rights provision. CIA agents then watched and asked questions but they claimed that they did not torture which was in some sense literally true.

The treaty to which he referred was The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. During the George W. Bush administration the CIA had tortured 3 captives in the War on Terror. The CIA destroyed the video tapes of the torture sessions and many Americans wanted President Obama to investigate and prosecute the torturers in accordance with the requirements of the treaty when there is a torture incident. However, a major ethical and legal complication was that the Bush Administration had issued an official legal memorandum to the CIA which said that the forms of torture that they used, water boarding, was not legally torture. Most legal scholars agree that this legal opinion was incorrect and America had previously prosecuted and punished the few American soldiers who had used Waterboarding. President Obama decided that since the CIA torturers, had been authorized in writing, that a criminal prosecution would be unfair. He also declined to have the Justice Department investigate the torture incidents, Many disagreed, and this quotation summarized their point of view. See {642428} for some of the language of the Convention.

See {642427} for a case where the United States was accused of not living up to this treaty.

At the time CIA apologists for the torture they carried out with the facilitation of the Justice Department often justified the torture because they claimed that it worked. Critics rose to the bait and argued that proposition as there was much evidence that it did not, and nothing was learned that had not been obtained without torture. However, Cole argues that that was the wrong issue. Torture was outlawed whether it worked or not. The United States under Ronald Reagan signed the treaty and the Senate ratified it. Torture is wrong whether or not it works.